Are you part of the club?

[JofZ]

Have you ever been a customer of a company ( a very good customer) only to find out that you were being abused by the owner of the company all along?
What would you do if you supported someone unconditionally from day one and then years down the road you found out you were nothing more then a blank check in the eyes of the owner?
Let me get a little more specific!
Lets say for example you had bought 20K in product from someone over the course of 18 months, when the average customer buys $300.00. Would you be entitled to a little respect? Would you be anticipating special treatment? Would you expect a friendship to develop?
I would answer the above three questions with a yes. I am a salesman, always have been and always will be. I do not get to practice it much these days, but its part of my DNA and I always think how I am treating a customer and how it will effect return business.
Lets say that company goes out of their way to **** you over, they send prototypes to people in your neighborhood and never ask you for your opinion. They offer new product to total strangers and never bother to ask you if you would like them. They even start a little club to gather intel, R&D and to sell off special product. Would you tolerate this behavior?
My first reaction was to ignore it. As it got worse I felt I needed to do something, so I wrote a nice email to the owner. No response, no surprise! It seems he is too sick to respond in writing, but well enough to post all over the internet in great length about his integrity, etc.
So are you part of the club?
You might think you are, but the truth is people care only about themselves!
Trust is something we all take for granted!
Longevity is something you wont have when you **** over your brother!
So who is this mystery company?
I bet you all want to know don't know you?

[sliding-tom]

That's real bad shitty behaviour :mad:Yes, I would like to know who that is and others, too, I guess - so next time it comes to purchasing anything from that company we'd better think twice.

[Nocaster]

but its part of my DNA and I always think how I am treating a customer and how it will effect return business, this came out of your mouth ?????????????

[JofZ]

Wim when you send someone a threat by email in the United States of America it is criminal.
I have no clue what you thought you would accomplish by threatening me into selling you a pedal.
For those who would like to know the story:
This person contacts me via Ebay bids on a pedal which clearly stated I reserved the right to cancel at any point in time. I closed the auction and he sends me a death threat by email. He said he was a police man and would come visit me.

I get wacko emails all the time it comes with the business I am in. But this guy seems to pop his head up from time to time thinking he is accomplishing something.

So Wim what else do you want that I wont sell you?

[tonefinger]

I agree with Sliding Tom, I would like to know.

[VacuumVoodoo]

Well, I am a very good customer (IMO) with a certain company - not related to guitar gear.
I don't give a Dodos poop how, with whom, when or where they try out new product s and ideas. I'm not interested in being a lab rat to experiment on. When they come out with a ready product I might or might not try it based on available official info.

Seems to me this thread is turning into a "Dirty Laundry Corner", it's not what gentlemen do. Gentlemen would call a duel, but that's not legal any more....

[Nocaster]

a dead threat, you must be out of your mind, you simple didn't follow the rules on ebay.
You accuse me again for this dead threats,you are sick my friend, really sick.
Concerning you law, there is no line what i wrote, that is in conflict with your law.
I wasn't intend to write something here, till this line apair:

"but its part of my DNA and I always think how I am treating a customer and how it will effect return business"

That line in in conflict how you act as salesman on ebay.
Let me pay the pedal, send the dollars back after your regret, and let me pay the
dollar rate difference, even when you try to correct it, i had a lost of almost 50 dollar.

You are not a correct person.

[JofZ]

Well, I am a very good customer (IMO) with a certain company - not related to guitar gear.
I don't give a Dodos poop how, with whom, when or where they try out new product s and ideas. I'm not interested in being a lab rat to experiment on. When they come out with a ready product I might or might not try it based on available official info.

Seems to me this thread is turning into a "Dirty Laundry Corner", it's not what gentlemen do. Gentlemen would call a duel, but that's not legal any more....

Its not a dirty laundry corner, but a place to call it like it is.
I am not going to name the company because emails have been sent back in forth in an effort to resolve the ongoing issue. I am hopeful it does get put to rest.

Back to the questions!

Do you not think one of your amp customers would be furious if he found out you had a new amp in the works and you didn't tell him?
What about sending your new amp to his buddy across the street for his opinion on your new amp when he has never owned one of your amps before? Don't you think your good old customer would be pissed off enough to call you and then send you an email and then stop buying from you?

Good questions about boutique customer service.

If we were to start a black list I would suggest you put Wim on it LOLOLOL :D

[D-B]

Edit------

[VacuumVoodoo]

Do you not think one of your amp customers would be furious if he found out you had a new amp in the works and you didn't tell him?
What about sending your new amp to his buddy across the street for his opinion on your new amp when he has never owned one of your amps before? Don't you think your good old customer would be pissed off enough to call you and then send you an email and then stop buying from you?

Good questions about boutique customer service.



I have a new amp in the works? That's sensational news to me:confused:

To answer your question: I do have a couple very good players from different genres who are my beta and burn-in testers. I do take feedback from customers very seriously and from time to time am in direct contact with them to check that everything's ok. It does not matter if they spent several thousand on an amp or a couple hundred on a JCM mod and tune-up. They all get the same "rock star" treatment from me.

But it is my decision whether to disclose a new project in the works to existing customers or not. I might seek initial opinion elsewhere from individuals who don't have previous experience with my products and therefore are not biased in any way. Or I may offer a beta test to some customers who actively give me feedback to get a comparative judgement. It all depends, there is no one and only way.

One of these days I might ask you Jason to beta test something even though you are not my customer (yet):D - if I will deem that it could be something right up your alley.

Just because you spent more money on a companys products than most should not be seen as a ticket to confidential and privileged information on future product plans or grant access to prototype testing etc. You may expect to be privy to some inside information at the companys discretion but it's not your call to demand it.

I was pissed sky high when folks at a certain restaurant I often frequent since 20+ years didn't ask me to beta test their new chili & lime flavored chocolate sauce. Do you think it changed anything in our friendship?

[JofZ]

I have a new amp in the works? That's sensational news to me:confused:

To answer your question: I do have a couple very good players from different genres who are my beta and burn-in testers. I do take feedback from customers very seriously and from time to time am in direct contact with them to check that everything's ok. It does not matter if they spent several thousand on an amp or a couple hundred on a JCM mod and tune-up. They all get the same "rock star" treatment from me.

But it is my decision whether to disclose a new project in the works to existing customers or not. I might seek initial opinion elsewhere from individuals who don't have previous experience with my products and therefore are not biased in any way. Or I may offer a beta test to some customers who actively give me feedback to get a comparative judgement. It all depends, there is no one and only way.

One of these days I might ask you Jason to beta test something even though you are not my customer (yet):D - if I will deem that it could be something right up your alley.

Just because you spent more money on a companys products than most should not be seen as a ticket to confidential and privileged information on future product plans or grant access to prototype testing etc. You may expect to be privy to some inside information at the companys discretion but it's not your call to demand it.

I was pissed sky high when folks at a certain restaurant I often frequent since 20+ years didn't ask me to beta test their new chili & lime flavored chocolate sauce. Do you think it changed anything in our friendship?

The easiest way for a small boutique company to drive sales is to sell to existing customers. After all, you had to have done something right to get them in the door in the first place. If you own a company and decide to seek opinions from non-customers, then yes I would say you are at risk. You are at risk of never selling another item to your previous customer group. Its called brand loyalty, something most consumers take very, very seriously. Whether or not its a conscience thought is another topic. When BMW is testing a new car, they send it my way. When Audi released the new R8 they asked if I wanted the first one. When IWC brought a limited edition Big Pilot to market it was offered to existing Big Pilot owners first. There are thousands of examples. Ferrari will not sell new cars to anyone other then existing Ferrari owners, seeing a pattern? Not only are these companies succesful, but they also follow the same rules. Guitar companies are no different. When I buy a guitar from a small builder he will offer me guitars before he offers them to the world.
Some might call is feeling entitled. I look at it as 100% unconditional brand loyalty. When I am happy with a product I tell my wealthy friends about it and because they don't like to feel like I have an advantage they typically buy it out of keeping up with Jones, or in my case the Shwartz's :)
If you choose to operate your company a different way I think you are making a grave mistake. Studios and pros could care less about you or your company. They do care about their egos and once they have moved on to the next amp, pedal and guitar you are the one who is left unsatisfied :eek:

The company in question from my original post basically lied about numerous prototypes being sent around. I know too much for my own good sometimes. This is more about lying to your best customer more then it is about beta testing.

How you treat your number 1 will always determine how you treat everyone else. You guys need to realize if a company will **** over someone who has bought everything this company offers and has asked for more imagine what they will do to a tire-kicker or a guy who buys one pedal or God forbid a guy who buys one and returns it or sells it on Fleabay.
Yes, that is another topic but a quality question as well.
Don't you feel it is inappropriate for a company to sell product to a customer who has had history of buying it only to flip it on Ebay some time down the road?

[VacuumVoodoo]

I agree on sales principles. How I conduct R&D and prototype testing prior to releasing the news is an altogether different story. Existing customers and fans will of course be the first to know when I'm confident it's ready for release.

BMW & Audi - not impressed ;). When you get invited to test drive a Koenigsegg (http://www.koenigsegg.com) than you can count yourself as member of THE club:p

[Nocaster]

JofZ wrote:
"If we were to start a black list I would suggest you put Wim on it LOLOLOL "
Nocaster (Wim):
-Who is "we"in this case ?
-seems you have big influence on this forum.
-then unscribe me from this forum JofZ
hope you feels better then.

[JofZ]

JofZ wrote:
"If we were to start a black list I would suggest you put Wim on it LOLOLOL "
Nocaster (Wim):
-Who is "we"in this case ?
-seems you have big influence on this forum.
-then unscribe me from this forum JofZ
hope you feels better then.

No one is banning you and no one is deleting your posts. You are free to say what ever you want. Even if it contains untruths and lack of factual information :D

I didn't post a thread Wim is an asshole, you posted a thread that I was. You are entitled to your opinion!

I feel better after a good cup of coffee and a smoke! What makes you feel better?

[JofZ]

I agree on sales principles. How I conduct R&D and prototype testing prior to releasing the news is an altogether different story. Existing customers and fans will of course be the first to know when I'm confident it's ready for release.

BMW & Audi - not impressed ;). When you get invited to test drive a Koenigsegg (http://www.koenigsegg.com) than you can count yourself as member of THE club:p

Do F1 races count? :D

It will be one exciting racing season, the first night F1 race!
No Indy!!!

I joined a car country club, they have 5 tracks and you get a little paddock to store parts, etc.
It should be a fun thing to do on Sundays when I can't take another round of golf in.

I only have 7 more months of freedom ( Going to be a dad again :))))))) )

[VacuumVoodoo]

Do F1 races count? :D
Only if you own the stable. If not, you're just a chauffeur or a mechanic on salary. Or ticket paying spectator...but you get to eyeball all the chicks:D

I only have 7 more months of freedom ( Going to be a dad again :))))))) )
Good job! - congrats :)

[PeeWee]

Great news, J! Many congrats!

[JofZ]

Thank you!!!!!

[JofZ]

I agree with Sliding Tom, I would like to know.

I am going to answer this question now as I find this company way too shaddy to deal with any longer. The last email I received from the owner was I am too sick to write to you. I then saw 30 posts from him on Freestompboxes and another blog. He then sent me another email saying he would reply to me that night, well that was over a week ago. The truth is he has nothing to say, and probably feels the facts speak for them self. They do! I haven't bought a pedal from him in a year and will not be buying anymore.

I will not try to damage his business, but everyone should be aware of the fact you are dealing with a company that is very, very shaddy at best!

So who is it? You are going to be floored!

BJF and MP

As soon as I find an amp I like better my MP is history. Its a shame that I am forced to sell an amp due to my feelings towards the company.

Oh well!

[Nocaster]

seems that you lost a lot of credit here in europe !!!

[admin]

seems that you lost a lot of credit here in europe !!!

Sure!
That's the ticket!

Europe is a large place, I think I have credit in a few countries :D

[VacuumVoodoo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCvz8y_DUSY

[admin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCvz8y_DUSY
This one is better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7Xf-eOOHFk

[soulsonic]

I apologize for not checking this interesting thread sooner...
So, yeah J, what's the deal with Bjorn? He seems to be quite the... eh... I guess you would know better than I, since I only hear rumors and whispers.

[BJF]

Hi,

Yes the amplifier prototype I did take to a studio on the opposite side of Stockholm from my workshop and also had a professional guitarist, who happens to both own the studio and an MP CS-40 among other amps btw, actuall all MP owners in Sweden are professional guitarists. Anyway, using a studio and a skilled guitarist had the excellent advantage in that the prototype could be played with a plethora of styles and at earshattering volume, and in the timeframe allowed, 8 days for tuning and tweaking and blasting from MP amplification Ltd whose property the prototype is before it went back to factory in Finland on the other side of the Baltic Sea.

I am afraid it would be perfectly outof the question to send a prototype to Chicago and this prototype has neither been anywhere near Chicago

This prototype was however shown at NAMM January this year and those in US very interested could try it out there or by appointment with MP Amplification Ltd

BJF Electronics is not a division of MP Amplification and so Jason , I can not promise, give or let you have any MP amplification prototype or serial#1 of any MP amplification product, but by all means talk to Harri.

Much of this can also be read at some other messageboards

Thank you and take care
BJ

PS congratulations on your new coming familymember

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbI5K0AzNHI

[JofZ]

Hi,

Yes the amplifier prototype I did take to a studio on the opposite side of Stockholm from my workshop and also had a professional guitarist, who happens to both own the studio and an MP CS-40 among other amps btw, actuall all MP owners in Sweden are professional guitarists. Anyway, using a studio and a skilled guitarist had the excellent advantage in that the prototype could be played with a plethora of styles and at earshattering volume, and in the timeframe allowed, 8 days for tuning and tweaking and blasting from MP amplification Ltd whose property the prototype is before it went back to factory in Finland on the other side of the Baltic Sea.

I am afraid it would be perfectly outof the question to send a prototype to Chicago and this prototype has neither been anywhere near Chicago

This prototype was however shown at NAMM January this year and those in US very interested could try it out there or by appointment with MP Amplification Ltd

BJF Electronics is not a division of MP Amplification and so Jason , I can not promise, give or let you have any MP amplification prototype or serial#1 of any MP amplification product, but by all means talk to Harri.

Much of this can also be read at some other messageboards

Thank you and take care
BJ

PS congratulations on your new coming familymember

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbI5K0AzNHI

Hi Bjorn:
Great to see on the Hub again!
Maybe you'll visit more often?
The prototypes I/we are talking about have nothing to do with amps. It is specifically the Delay. I have emails from you going back to 2004 where we were exchanging thoughts, ideas about what it should be. You promised as soon as you had it built you would send it. I was told I could play it if I flew to Namm in 06, which I did and guess what the pedal never showed. That didn't stop me from bringing all of my pedals so your booth had BJF for others to play did it? I then come home to find out the pedal was with someone a block away from me, along with Fatback and 6 others. That is not what I call keeping good customers happy, or even giving them a reason to come back for more product.

I think you have 8 new pedals that have never been sent to the hub members as part of our deal. You wanted real opinions from real players, or at least that is what I thought.
If I am totally off on the above I must have been cloned! :D

Since you were a mod here you should have stopped by more then once every 8 months ;)
We could have cleared this up a long, long ,long time ago!
I guess you don't have time to mod 3 forums, or 1 forum and 2 clubs, or a blog a forum and a club. I guess I have no clue what the purpose of Tonepost is? Anyone know?

[BJF]

Hi,

As you well know the delay that was supposed to be at NAMM 2006 was in fact in Anaheim but at a freightcompany that failed to deliver the package until monday after NAMM had closed.

Again this is something you should take up with MP amplification.

I am not aware of any Hub deal with this and have never been in a position to make such a deal,but that must be something you have worked out with Eero Custom-Sounds US.

With Guitarhub I have only agreed to be an advisor and moderator and have declined any business relations whatsoever.

I have not been visting since the 13 Augusti 2007 since you specifically asked me not to post any further on that date.

Thank you for the invitation, considering you no longer find use for my advice or participation as a moderator I wonder why I'd spend time here.

Thank you

Be most well and have fun
BJ

[JofZ]

Hi,

As you well know the delay that was supposed to be at NAMM 2006 was in fact in Anaheim but at a freightcompany that failed to deliver the package until monday after NAMM had closed.

Again this is something you should take up with MP amplification.

I am not aware of any Hub deal with this and have never been in a position to make such a deal,but that must be something you have worked out with Eero Custom-Sounds US.

With Guitarhub I have only agreed to be an advisor and moderator and have declined any business relations whatsoever.

I have not been visting since the 13 Augusti 2007 since you specifically asked me not to post any further on that date.

Thank you for the invitation, considering you no longer find use for my advice or participation as a moderator I wonder why I'd spend time here.

Thank you

Be most well and have fun
BJ

Hi Bj:
I had a long reply written and my internet signal dropped and I lost the page. So I am going to put up a readers digest version instead as I am sure every one is sick of this by now.
There is no need to argue, there is no need to point fingers.
I am not happy about how your company handled numerous issues and I felt I had exhausted all other ways of trying to get through to you.
Believe me if this was an isolated issue you would have never heard a thing.
As long as your signature carries the affiliation of MP and their website lists your name with photo then the public is going to believe its your company. If that is not the case, then you can let me know. I never dealt with anyone but you on anything. Even the amp you took care of, Harri and I spoke about the color of the amp that was it.
You are free to post here and we will never edit, delete or alter in any way shape or form anything you have to say. They are your opinions.
I will leave you with one last tid bit, there is a 12 page thread here about the delay and the last several pages should demonstrate on top of everything else why I am so upset.
If you can not find it let me know.
Be well,
Jason

[Skreddy]

12 page thread? Where's that?

[JofZ]

12 page thread? Where's that?

It was only 6 pages :D
http://www.theguitarhub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=549

Notice anything else in the pedal section?